I recently joined my dear friend Bill Hodge on the The Wild Idea Podcast for a conversation about ecological resilience, climate adaptation, and how we think about wilderness in a changing world. We covered topics such as road ecology, species adaptation, and the sometimes counterintuitive lessons that emerge when humans step back from the landscape. From wood frogs that freeze solid in winter to the 22-mile rule showing how few truly remote places remain, we explored how human systems, even unintended ones, shape the trajectories of natural systems.

Drawing on my work in evolutionary ecology, wilderness ethics, and machine learning, I reflected on the tension between our desire to intervene and our limited ability to forecast long-term ecological outcomes. Using examples like the Chernobyl exclusion zone—where many species are thriving in the absence of people despite nuclear contamination—I argued that ecological recovery is often less about precision intervention and more about restraint. We discussed how machine learning can help us simulate alternative futures and understand potential tradeoffs, but that ultimately, the most powerful conservation tool may be humility. More wilderness, not more control, might be the best way to meet the uncertainties ahead.

Listen to the episode here or wherever you get your podcasts.